Sustainable Teaching Practices with Robin Koo

Lynnette Arthur (LA): Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Powerful Pedagogy. Today, I am delighted to have with me here one of my near and dear personal friends and colleagues, Robin Koo, who has been an art studio teacher now for over 16 years..

Robin Koo (RK): That’s crazy. Hi, Lynette.

LA: Hi. We’ve both just a little background. You’ve been to Reggio. We’ve both been to Reggio. And I know that trip really impacted both of our practices tremendously. And so what I’m hoping for you to share is just sort of your Reggio journey and sort of what was it about Reggio that sort of inspired your practice now? What was some of your biggest takeaways?

RK: Yeah, I think you know something about visiting Reggio and like seeing schools that are inspired by Reggio or the actual schools in Italy. I think the first thing is that it really kind of goes straight to your heart. At least that’s how I felt. There was something about what they do over there that just felt so right and so in tune with the values that I had already started to hone and recognize. And so once that encounter happened, I just, you know, there’s no way that you can really go back, right? I mean.

LA:  Yeah, you’re changed forever.

RK: Yeah. And like, this is it. This feels really validating, which is I think what the Reggio approach does for a lot of teachers, it feels really validating and then also inspiring because there’s so much more that you could test out and try out in your own school environment. So I think that’s one of those really special things about Reggio, and it just feels so different from American early childhood education. And it feels right. And so, you know, we’re as American educators, we’re just then trying to pursue and figure out, okay, like in my own context, how do I bring some of this in a way that makes sense is still, you know, I’m part of the American education system, but how do I help impact some change, create some change in my school and in my classroom with these new ideas that I’ve now witnessed and experienced?

LA: Yeah. And I know, for us both, we were both impacted by a certain center, a certain place that we visited in Reggio.

RK: Remida.

LA: Remida, for those of you who don’t know, and Robin, if you can say it better, but for those of you who don’t know, Remida is a, I guess a center in Reggio. It’s basically for the community where the town, the community drops off their excess product, donates everything from material buttons like any little doodads for the community, especially educators, to come take and use in their schools.

RK: Yeah, that’s right. I think, you know, and there’s a lot of materials repurposing centers throughout our country, right, throughout the United States, various materials, resources. The only thing that’s different about Remida that I’ve noticed is that they are sort of on the next level, because what they’ll do is they’ll work with really large companies like, you know, BCBG Max Azria and other fashion companies or other types of industrial or businesses that will then specifically set aside materials that they know also are clean. They have them be trucked over, and it’s like a system that the businesses are already really connected to. And the businesses recognize that there’s a lot of value in their excess. And then there’s obviously the pedagogical aspect. So it’s already really, really connected as a system. What I’ve noticed is happening here in the United States is that we’ve got these amazing people that are like kindred spirits to you and me, Lynnette, who see that there’s a lot of still really good stuff that people are going to throw away. So whether it’s like a grandmother that realizes like, oh, I’ve got too much yarn and needles or whatever, or, you know, just like a woodworker that’s got a lot of, you know, wood scraps, things like that. And so there are these other little mini-centers all across the country. It’s just not part of a unified system. And so that’s, I think, where we’re lacking. And yet we do have a lot of materials here in the country, you know, and a really good program. So if you happen to, you know, if any of you listeners out there, if you happen to live near a place and you know what I’m talking about, and if you don’t have a place near you, a materials center near you, there’s probably one not too far away. But those are amazing little treasure troves.

LA: They are. And speaking of treasure troves and what you said, like value in the excess that Remida Center inspired something very incredible in your own, in your own practice in the school that you were working at that we were both working at. You talk a little bit about the materials room and sort of the birth of that.

RK: That’s right. And, you know, that was me working with a number of our colleagues. And we recognize that there was an underutilized space, a space that had also sort of recently opened up and acquired by our school, but that it would be the perfect place for us to then start our own materials collection because we were driving out to Long Island to Materials Center that was out there and like loading up our cars, you know when these like big trips and hauling stuff over. But that wasn’t really super sustainable. Also, the Materials Center unfortunately lost funding and closed down. But, you know, having identifying space inside of our school was really wonderful. And so we were able to then set aside time to then organize, you know, collect all the stuff that was in the basement and in some of our cabinets and closets in the classrooms, and then start organizing that out. So that way we could really sort of become self-reliant on open-ended materials, right on all these single-use items. So whether it’s bottle caps, wine quarks, even like mat board from frame shops, you know, those are all great materials. But to be able to have our own circular economy within our own school community. So that way, like our parents who were, you know, in the workforces, various workforces could then bring in materials, we would then sort it out and then sort of make it really open to teachers and children to shop from for their ideas. So that was a really, you know, that felt like a baby of mine And it was something that we started. It’s still going on, which is great. And it has inspired a ton of other educators and schools to set up their own, which is really phenomenal. And that that kind of hearing the stories of other people have been inspired by that kind of work to set up spaces in their own school communities. Like, that’s just that’s the goal, right? That’s what we want.

LA: Absolutely.

RK: We want every school to have their own materials center.

LA: And so I guess for, you know, educators or administrators who are looking to start their own collection, like how does a school start a materials collection, like what are some of maybe the first steps that people can take if they’re thinking about creating their own materials, found and recycled materials source?

RK: Yeah. I mean, I think that there’s I think there’s a lot of different ways to start. And something that I was just thinking about recently with, talking about with one of our colleagues is like, what kinds of I think it’s important to think about what kinds of experiences do you want to offer your children, your students, and what kinds of materials then would best support those experiences? Right? And so you could just choose one. And so like one example would be like if you wanted to at the beginning of the year, have each child make their own little figure, you know, like let’s say out of like champagne corks and then they like, you know, add a little bits of fabric and yarn or whatever and like, drew eyeglasses or whatever it is on their figure. I mean, so then maybe the goal is, okay, so we want everyone to create their own figures. So we could have it in like the, you know, the block area for them to play with. Then I think you think about, okay, well what kinds of materials then would make sense to start asking families to collect. So is it champagne bottles, champagne corks, bits of fabric and yarn? Or are you, like, hoping to start like a really big woodworking curriculum in the beginning of the year? In which case then do you just ask for like wood and maybe some things that can be nailed into the wood? So I think like you can start off really intentionally and also really small like focus like to focus your attention on just collecting a few materials. Because I think if you tried to put out a list of like 100 different materials, I think that can be both overwhelming for the teacher. But then also for families, especially if you’re starting a program brand new. So I would recommend just sort of picking one focus, and then maybe it’s just five materials that you ask for. You know, we’ve also done it where each class is assigned like 1 or 2 different materials. So like maybe like the threes class is assigned champagne corks and keys. And another class is assigned like bottle caps and paperclips or whatever it is, you know. So you could always go in that way. But, you know, there’s a lot of different ways to kind of start. I think it’s just the question is just starting, you know.

LA: Exactly. And one of the things that you do in the beginning of each year, as you’re sort of welcoming new families into the year, is you give out a brochure. And in this brochure, you have like a list of things, and I don’t know if you have it there with you, but I’m wondering just off the top of your head, like, what are some of like the essential things in that brochure? Like if a school or teacher was thinking of of things like, I know for me, definitely the wood, because we do woodworking every year, the corks, we do the bottle caps, ribbon for weaving. Like you’re right. Like when I think about the actual projects that I do in my classroom, sourcing stuff for those projects becomes priority, right.

RK: Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, and for a teacher that or a school that’s brand new at it, I think just, you know, focusing and just choosing what are those like initial projects or the projects that you know, you’re going to do in like October that you want to spend, you know, the first month or two collecting for. Yeah, the brochures. And I’ve made a lot of brochures over the years. Right. For all of the different materials centers that I’ve started and the brochures, sometimes I categorize them by like the raw material. So if I write down, like in the metals list, I’ll write like keys, jar lids, tin can, like little tins for coffee and tea or Altoids like those kinds of tins, I mean, keys, key rings are always huge, but so are like nuts and bolts and washers that are not rusty. Those are great loose parts. So that could be like the metals list. I’ll have a separate list for cardboard and like cardboard tubes from wrapping paper or aluminum foil, paper towels or obviously really big packaging inserts that are cardboard, jewelry boxes, things like that, you know? So sometimes I like to think about it as raw materials, but I’ve also organized the list by where you might find those materials. So I’ll say like in the home here’s like your top 12 things, but in a generic office, like here’s like a top 12 list. So it could be like office letterhead, even like boxes. That scotch tape comes in like those boxes are really good boxes. So those kinds of things are good. You know, when companies do like an office cleanout, right. Like what kinds of old corporate letterhead are in the drawers of people’s desks, you know? And could that be donated? You know, like the envelopes, a little note cards, the paper, all with the company’s logo. Those are great things to have in, like a message center in, like a three’s room, right? You know, those are all good stuff. So I mean really anything, basically anything that someone is going to throw away probably could be saved and reused in an amazing way by children.

LA: Absolutely.

RK: You know, so it really, you know, it’s just it really is sort of like literally about before you’re about to throw it into the trash can or the recycling bin was likely. It could, it could be repurposed in a great way.

LA: Well, that’s awesome. And I think, you know, if somebody’s listening, who’s thinking about starting their own, like just that little tidbit is so inspiring. And this year in particular, Robin has been helping me so with three-year-olds, only because I got this huge donation of Jersey soft fabric from a friend who’s a dress designer. And so out of that donation, sometimes a project is born or an emerging curriculum gets born, right?

RK: Yeah. And I think that’s a great point that you’re making, Lynnette, which is that when you do have this material in front of you, sometimes the material is what inspires a project. But then sometimes also you sometimes also students or teachers have a project or an idea in mind, and then they go hunting for the material that would best suit that. So I think that there’s like two ways to approach materials and ideas. You know, either the materials will inspire you or you already have the inspiration. And so you just need essentially the vehicle to like, make it happen, you know, to make that visible and tangible. Yeah. That’s right.

LA: So we we just sent home 21 amazing handcrafted hand-sewn stuffed animals.

RK: So adorable. And you know, I remember there’s also some like, you know, scrap fabric, other types of scrap fabric like for the wings or like the things like that and obviously buttons and whatnot. I was thinking about also a little bit, I’m just like going back to that idea about thinking about our values, you know, the values that we sort of already have as people and of course, as teachers. And I feel like I also need to give like a shout-out to my grandmother, actually. Right. Who I think, you know, like collecting material didn’t just happen actually, with my experience with Reggio Emilia, it also really started with like my family, right? My grandmother came from like wartime Korea. And you know, when people have very little like every little thing is saved, you know, because it’s all valuable and can be repurposed. And so I think that kind of ethic or approach to saving because you never know, right? You know, is something that I learned and witnessed from her, like all of the drawers and like her kitchen, like all of the twisty ties like that had she had ever come across, were all saved and all of the rubber bands and all these like, toothpicks or stirrers, whatever, it was like all it was like all kinds of crazy and like ribbons and all this other stuff. So, you know, that’s that’s something that I like, learned from her. And then, you know, kind of did on my own, just as like a person, like my apartment would just be filled with, like, all kinds of, like, old stationery or whatever. And then like, you know, seeing Reggio just affirmed and validated this sort of like hoarding because you never know. So I’m like, I feel like, you know, truly, you know, like yes.

LA: Validated. I feel seen. Yes. There are so many aspects about Reggio that make me feel seen.

RK: You know, it’s so good. I mean, and obviously we do all this right. And we’ve been doing this, you and I, for like 20 years of saving materials and all that because we know that it you know that we know that when we talk about honoring children’s ideas, right? When we say like we honor children’s ideas, they come to us, as you know, active learners and deciders of their learning. Then we know that we have to offer them open-ended materials and open-ended experiences. Right? Because that’s that’s the follow-through with that belief. But I think that and so, you know, we’ve been doing this for a while because of that, we believe in young children’s ideas and we know that open-ended materials are important. I think what has become more and more another layer to saving materials and reusing them, another layer that has become really important is obviously the sustainability part. And I think that is something that has really come to the forefront in my work in the past couple of years. And just thinking about how important it is that the choices that we’re making to really try to use only single-use items that have been saved from landfill, how important that choice is in terms of like how to address climate change, climate injustice. And I think and just like thinking about sustainability in our art making. And so that’s something definitely that I’ve been thinking about a lot lately and is something that I really make a point now to talk about with my students in terms of like, hey, “where did this material come from? Like how do people normally use it? Where do you recognize it from, and where do you think it comes from?” Right. And then from there, like, what are all like, “what are the 100 ways that we can transform it and reuse it?” So that’s definitely something that I’ve been thinking about a lot more. And so, you know, I have all these parents coming up to me that are like, so like our kids won’t let us throw anything in the trash for the recycling. And I’m like, I’m sorry. But also that’s awesome.

LA: Exactly. I know, I know, same, same. And I think one of the things that, you know, I strive for is to create this next generation of future inhabitants of this earth who will sort of think twice before they throw something out, right? Who will see something and see all the ways that they can repurpose it, all the ways that they can reuse it. But like you said, just, you know, who will create less waste.

RK: Yeah. And I think it I mean, and I truly believe that it requires a lot more cognitive thinking, problem-solving, and creativity. Like, truly when you’re looking at something that clearly had a prior use. Right? And so if we’re looking, I mean, I feel like a cardboard tube is really easy, but like, you know, if you’re looking at like the that little like plastic piece that contact lenses come in, you know, that disposable contact lenses come in, even stuff like that we collect. But like when you look at that and you’re like, okay, so like this was used for this and it was meant to be thrown away, but you have to kind of then rethink it, right? So even like a yogurt bottle or a yogurt cap or whatever it is like, those are all things that require an extra jump because it’s not really clear how you can use it, but you clearly know how it was used before. So making that mental jump, I think, requires children and adults to be more creative thinkers. And I think it is just in general a lot easier for children just because they are so open-minded and they’re not, you know, old and like wizened, you know, like with us, you know, trying, you know, who are like really struggling sometimes to like kind of move past sort of like, you know, all of these assumptions about materials. So it’s so easy for them. But I just think that like, it also just challenges them a lot more because it’s so easy. If I just gave them like construction paper circles and, you know, ovals and just told them what to do. I mean, there’s no creativity in that, I think, because that would just mean that I’m expecting them to follow the steps. But then like, what kind of, you know, future children and humans am I trying to really support and help grow, you know? And so I want them to be creative thinkers. And I think that’s, you know, that’s the driving force behind all of the work.

LA: Absolutely, absolutely. So in working with children and materials and you sort of started on this, why do you feel this work, this initiative is so important for young children?

RK: I think that there is I think because it’s a really good challenge, right? When you’re asking them to like look at something and try and figure out what its properties are, right? Like, so with a piece of cardboard from like a cereal box, for instance. Like, what do we know about it? Right? We already know how it was used. We’re learning about what kind of it’s what it’s made out of. And now we have to figure out what its potential is. Right? Is it hard? Is it soft? Does it bend easily? Are there interesting designs on it or letters on it that we could cut out? You know, and then from there, like having that challenge and then trying to figure out all of the different ways we can manipulate it. I think challenging students in that way is really important. What I also really love is that because there isn’t one right answer, I’m really, you know, when I’ve got a group of 11 kindergartners, kindergartners in front of me and we’ve got like a cornflakes cereal box in front of us, like, you know, we’re really also working together and building together a knowledge base about what this material is about and what its potential is. But we’re also learning about what our own potential is as humans to do to this material. Right. So we’re learning about the potential of material and the potential of humans and sort of where that intersection is. And so what I love is that there’s this opportunity with open-ended materials for us to inspire each other, to be kind to each other, to support each other, and then to really essentially experience together the creativity and the joy that comes from materials that are open-ended and I think that’s important. I think the social piece is actually seems feels a little bit more important now than it ever has. And so building that culture of inspiration and sense of community and support and collaboration, that has been really my main focus for the past couple of years around materials. And that’s that’s the wonderful thing about materials. It also, I mean, you know, from the educators perspective, too, it’s also like, well, open-ended materials really helps build like language skills, both verbal also literacy skills. Right? Because a lot of materials have letters and numbers on them already. There’s fine motor, there’s gross motor, there’s executive functioning, planning, you know stamina. I mean, you know, we could go on and on, you know, narrative a sense of narrative, dramatic play, you know, patterning, designing, you know, design thinking. All that stuff is involved in materials too. And, I feel like it’s only because it’s open-ended materials that it that it then creates.

LA: Inspires them.

RK: Yeah, inspires them and also offers room for all of these skills to be developed together. So, you know, totally agree.

LA: Yeah. Totally agree. And I think even just by watching how a child interacts with the material, it can tell you so much about how they’re processing something. Right? And how they’re thinking about something.

RK: No, absolutely. I mean, you’re really able to see how they approach something that’s new. Right? And is it a child that immediately goes toward symmetry, right? Or asymmetry? Do they like, you know, just like kind of really touching it and ripping it and like folding it up and everything? Or are they a little bit more reserved or like careful in their approach to something? I mean, those are all things. These are all clues and information and data that we get as teachers when we do that kind of observation. And that’s the cool thing, right, too, about these materials is that we can just like kind of give them materials, set up a provocation, and then really sit back and just observe, you know, because they just kind of go right at it, which is so fun. And we get to just like sit back and observe and watch the negotiation happen between kids, or the negotiation between materials and a child, like, oh, it’s like so frustrating. And then how do they deal with that frustration when the thing keeps falling over, you know, and it’s like not balancing or whatever. So, you know, that’s all data that we can easily collect just from open-ended materials.

LA: Yeah. And it’s huge. It just how it’s huge and how it informs like our teaching practices. And one of the things that you said that I feel like is, is a huge takeaway is the potential of a material, and even just the language we use around these materials that we’re introducing to it makes an impact, right? And when we use words like, “what is the potential of it? You know, what else can this be used for?” Like then we’re also planting seeds in the minds of our students about constructive thinking. Right? And thinking outside the box and, you know, just all of that.

RK: I think the other thing too is like in terms of when you say language, I’m also thinking about the kids who are silent, right? I mean, you’ve got your kids who are like just talking all the time. They talk as a way to process and, you know, they’re just the really talkative ones. But then the kids that are a little bit more silent and quieter, especially when they’re a little bit younger, too. I mean, what we’re able to do is we’re able to then help give them the vocabulary and name what it is that they’re doing, because they’re definitely doing some really interesting stuff with materials, you know, with like folding paper or gluing or cutting different things, but or how they’re like arranging some different caps and, you know, keys and paper clips all together. They might be quiet as they work, but then you’re able to actually give them the verbal language and name what it is they’re doing, and it just elicits so much language out of them to, you know, there’s just so much we can ask children and be like, “wow, I really noticed that you’ve been only putting the blue ones together.” You know? “I wonder if you are going to choose a green one next, or if you’re just going to stick with the blue ones?” And I just love to kind of throw like I wonder statements. And they don’t always, you know, without expecting an answer, but it usually just immediately opens like the floodgates for lots and lots of topics.

LA: Absolutely, absolutely.

RK: I wonder statements, you know, for those kids especially that just like, you know, when you ask them a direct question, they just kind of shut down a little bit. But when you’re just kind of like.

LA: When you turn it into a “I wonder”. Yeah. It makes them sort of more willing to volunteer because it’s sort of not just a, you know, just sort of in their face asking them something, you know, to respond to. Yeah. I agree, one of the things you know, before we end is we involve our students in this process. And I know I’m, you know, often letting my students do everything from sort to, you know, clean caps in a little bin of soapy water. But for schools who are sort of thinking about this process, what are some of the things that they can think about in ways to involve the children with collection or or putting away or storing of materials?

RK: Yeah, I think the most important it’s like and you know, it’s like a block area, right? Like if so, if you’ve labeled your shelves with visual cues of where each block goes, then the children are able to sort the blocks by themselves and, you know, independently. And I think having those same visual cues are really important for children in order for children to be able to actively take part in a real way, in terms of sorting materials, I think a great way would be to sort of have like these, like whether it’s like boxes or bins, like you could even use laundry hampers, shopping bags, however you want to do it. But even just like labeling or having the kids be involved in designing the signage for each type of item category, you know? So whether you choose to organize things by color or if you decide to.

LA: Which is what we do, just FYI.

RK: Well, we organize it by color within a raw material category, right? So even the plastic shelf, you know, the plastics are all separated from everything else, but within the plastic shelf that’s organized by color. So however school wants to do it, they want they could do plastic, metal, you know, whatever. Or they could just keep all the red stuff together, which could be a really awesome way of doing it too. But I think the kids really need those visual cues at their level to be able to sort their donations from home, and then they need the visual cues to then like, sort it into whatever materials area that you have. But I think they should be absolutely involved, you know, in the full circle of materials. Right? So looking for it at home, collecting it, donating it, sorting it, and then using it, documenting it. You know, which is then a way to promote more materials collection so that full cycle of the kids could be involved in that full cycle. Then, I’d say that that’s a hugely successful program.

LA: Absolutely. And we utilize our students all the time for that work.

RK: They’re able to and they really love it. They really, really love it to be part of it.

LA: Robin this has been so inspiring. Thank you so much.

RK: Thanks so much for having me.

LA: For just agreeing to chat. I was like, so excited about this one because I was like, this is going to be so good. And Robin is just like Wonder Woman. And the other thing is you also, you’ve taught studio teachers, studio art studio teachers as well.

RK: Yeah, that’s right. It’s something that I really love doing is being out there in like the bigger field of early childhood education and early art education. I think that it’s a really big community. But, you know, there needs to be more connections between all of us early childhood educators, but also the art educators that work with young children. And so that kind of work of connecting with other teachers, learning from one another, it’s the kind of work that I also really, really love doing, too.

LA: Awesome. And I hope this inspires, if you are an art studio teacher, just to sort of put out feelers and start your own community groups. So that way you can, you know, share ideas and, you know, just collaborate, you know, or just vent. You know, venting is good too.

RK: Yeah. And that’s so important too. I mean, we’re we’re here for each other. I think that’s really important.

LA: Absolutely. So Robin, thank you so much. This has been another episode of the Powerful Pedagogy and we look forward to next time. Thank you, Robin.

RK: Bye. Thanks, Lynnette. Bye, everyone.